Slavery is universally recognized as one of humanity’s darkest institutions — or at least, that’s how most modern people see it. Yet lately, a surprising number of voices have started arguing otherwise. One of them is Christian nationalist podcaster Joshua Haymes from Nashville, Tennessee, who recently stirred outrage by claiming that slavery isn’t something Christians should condemn. His reasoning? According to Haymes, the Bible never explicitly bans slavery, meaning that rejecting it would be contrary to Scripture. He also insisted that people shouldn’t judge those from the past who owned slaves, saying they were simply “products of their time.”
Christian nationalist podcaster Joshua Haymes says Christians must be willing to defend the institution of slavery
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Haymes referred to this act of applying modern moral standards to historical figures as “chronological snobbery,” arguing that people today have no right to look down on those from earlier eras. He said that future generations might one day view our actions as immoral too, so it’s hypocritical to judge past societies.
He went even further, saying that not all slave owners were abusive, and that a “moral distinction” should be made between those who mistreated their slaves and those who supposedly did not. According to the Nashville podcaster, Christians should refrain from condemning slavery altogether, because, in his view, the Bible does not specifically forbid it.
This controversial take quickly set social media ablaze. Many users were horrified by his statements—though, given Haymes’ background, some weren’t entirely shocked.
“No hate is quite like Christian love,” one user commented. Another wrote, “I don’t really trust anyone whose morality is based solely on what some random people thought a few thousand years ago.” Some even wondered if Haymes was joking, because the idea seemed too extreme to be serious. Sadly, it appears he was entirely earnest in his remarks.
Others online fired back with biting sarcasm, suggesting that if Haymes truly believed slavery was acceptable, he should be willing to become a slave himself. One user wrote, “As far as this guy goes, someone needs to take him and enslave him. I’m sure he wouldn’t mind since the Bible says it’s okay. I believe it’s his duty to become a slave if he wants to be a good Christian. /s.”
But beyond the mockery, there were also serious concerns about the broader implications of Haymes’ views. Some pointed out that Joshua Haymes reportedly serves as the pastor of U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth — a revelation that alarmed many Americans. Given Hegseth’s powerful position, people began questioning what influence a pastor with such beliefs might hold, and how that could shape future decisions at the highest levels of government.
